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Pink Floyd   04/26/1975

Sports Arena, Los Angeles, CA
Source Millard tape > DAT > CDR(1) > EAC (secure mode) > flac(8)
Media FLAC
Tech Notes Pink Floyd - Cruel But Fair
Recorded live at Sports Arena, Los Angeles, California, USA, April 26, 1975

Label: HRV CDR026

Audio Source: Audience recording (the Mike Millard tape archives)

Sound Quality: A

Lineage: Original Harvested SHN-files --> FLAC level 8 --> MWP
(see protocol file for conversion details)

Artwork: Included

Gallery links:
http://www.mindwarppavilion.org/cpg/displayimage.php?pos=-5149
http://www.mindwarppavilion.org/cpg/displayimage.php?pos=-5148

Number of Discs: 2
Total running time: 142:51 (63:04 / 79:47)

Notes:
Here's a fair (!) description that turns up all around the net, which is why I do not give credit by linking to one randomly accessed webpage when it very likely is not the original source...
An excellent recording of a complete 1975 gig. The legend says it was taped by the legendary taper Mike Millard, containing the best-existing versions of Dick Parry performing a saxophone solo in "Echoes" and the prototype "Raving and Drooling" and "You've Gotta Be Crazy", which would eventually become "Sheep" and "Dogs" respectively.
After You Gotta Be Crazy, Dave Gilmour says "It was a cruel song.... But fair. The next tune we're going to do for you is another new number, it's called 'Shine On You Crazy Diamond'. It has something to do with Syd Barrett who some of you might remember..... & some of you probably won't."

The show is, however, NOT complete in the purist sense of the word. Part of HAC was missing, supposedly because of a tape flip, and it has been "completed" using a recording from the Boston show (see posts from the mailing list below). The sound quality is, however, outstanding for an audience tape, with the actual audience practically only heard between songs.


Oh, and something about the Taper (from http://uuweb.led-zeppelin.us/tapers.htm):

Mike Millard

Millard used a wheelchair for a recording prop. His taping equipment was a Nakamichi stereo cassette deck and AKG microphones. Various transfers from his masters were done over the years. Often the 1st generation copies would be slightly sabotaged by Millard. This was done by him to see who traded each version of his master. For example, low recording levels on the VHS copies or a few cuts here and there. Sadly Millard, during his depression, destroyed most of his masters, certainly all the Led Zeppelin ones. Tragically he committed suicide in 1990, but his family still own all the masters. The shows that he captured on tape and saved for posterity are among the best ever concerts Led Zeppelin performed. He recorded a number of other famous bands such as Pink Floyd, Yes, and the Rolling Stones.


There has been some debate about Mike Millard recordings aside from Led Zeppelin. This is from interview with someone who used to trade with Mike Millard between 1987-1990.

Q. What other bands did Mike record beside Led Zeppelin?
A. Tons. Pink Floyd in 1975, many Yes shows, Who shows, the Rolling Stones, & Jethro Tull. Basically everyone who came to the LA Forum in the years 1974-1980s, then occasionally taping after that, ie the Who in 1989, Plant in 1990, etc. He originally used a mono recorder in 1974, then got his portable Nakamichi tape recorder and AKG microphones in 1975 for the Zep shows.
Q. How was the tape intentionally messed up?
A. He would put a marking in a song somewhere like a volume fluctuation and then keep a log book of every copy he sent out and who's copy had what markings.

Q. Did he give tape covers to the bootleg companies?
A. Never, he hated boot companies. Every boot that was made was without his approval.
Q. Any idea how much he sold tapes for to the bootleggers?
A. He didn't. He never sold a tape, and certainly never intentionally gave one out to the boot companies. He blew a gasket when For Badgeholders Only came out.
Q. Was his wheelchair due to an illness or an injury?
A. As far as I know, it was a prop for taping.
Q. How old was he in 1977?
A. He was in his twenties in 1977.
Q. With whom did he go to concerts?
A. I am not sure on this one, I know he had a few "helpers"

Q. What was his goal in recording concerts?
A. Making the best quality recordings one could make. He was also very protective of his tapes, and any tape he traded out was marked in a secret way to identify that tape if it was put onto a bootleg. He also used Dolby B and played back with it off to boost the high end, but it also increased the hiss on many of his masters.
Q. How did he love music? What other ways did he show his love for music?
A. When he sent tapes out, he would decorate the cases with colours, labels, and Xeroxes of his ticket stubs.
Q. Did he ever meet any musicians?
A. No idea here, he was a little reclusive.
Q. Any other biographical information that would be OK to know: What education did he get?
A. He was living at home with his mother. He worked as a custodian at a high school (nothing glamorous here)
It's my understanding that his master tapes are now in the possession of his family.

Q. Do they intend ever to do anything with them other than keep them?
A. No, I had a friend who knew him very well, go to his mother after his death and try to help her organize them and pack them, but she would not let him into the room where they were. As far as I know, they are still in the room he was living in during the last years of his life.


Mike Millard
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Millard)

Mike Millard, nicknamed "Mike The Mike" was an avid concert taper in the 1970s and 1980s, recording mostly Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd and The Rolling Stones concerts in California, especially at the Los Angeles Forum. He taped virtually every show at the Forum from 1974 to 1980. Many of his recordings found their way into the hands of bootleggers who sold Mike's work to unsuspecting fans.
Starting with a basic mono recorder in 1974, Millard upgraded to a Nakamichi stereo recorder with AKG Acoustics microphones for the 1975 Led Zeppelin shows in the area. He often used a wheelchair to conceal his equipment, pretending to be disabled. Unlike most 1970s audience bootlegs, Millard's recordings are noted for their great sound quality, and are to this day considered some of the finest audio bootlegs available.
Millard's recording of the Led Zeppelin concert on June 21, 1977 at the Forum (allegedly taped from row number six) was released under the title Listen To This Eddie, and remains one of the best-known Led Zeppelin bootlegs. His recording of the opening number from the concert, "The Song Remains The Same", was included in the promos menu of the Led Zeppelin DVD.



Info: Twenty-sixth in a series of Harvested uploads...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_Floyd
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_Floyd_discography
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_Floyd_live_performances

http://www.harvested.org/


Tracklisting:

Disc 1
01. Raving and Drooling 17:08
02. You Gotta Be Crazy 15:00
03. Shine On 1-5 12:43
04. Have a Cigar 4:48
05. Shine On 6-9 13:25

Disc 2
01. Speak to Me 5:17
02. Breathe 2:53
03. On the Run 4:45
04. Time 6:11
05. The Great Gig in the Sky 6:05
06. Money 8:08
07. Us and Them 7:47
08. Any Colour You Like 8:35
09. Brain Damage 3:41
10. Eclipse 2:10
11. Echoes 24:15

FLAC fingerprints:
(use these to check file integrity, and also if you are unsure whether you already have the same files or not - the prints remain the same even if file names and tags are edited, so if you have the same files, the fingerprints will match)

Disc 1
101 Raving And Drooling.flac:aff09671bec38b2795d7f418e554c9f3
102 Gotta Be Crazy.flac:8fc6eabcfcda21dba55c35fc5e3e529d
103 Shine On 1-5.flac:6e300baa5e97395cbd9ed78a036e5236
104 Have A Cigar.flac:d91358e45a157195d1b760b3cf9039af
105 Shine On 6-9.flac:085ae769c49847560e9627581f1eea75

Disc 2
201 Speak To Me.flac:0d22caa6f6d383f6a3a7f7fa74ffa864
202 Breathe.flac:1f2da4d3f79a5e13f6b668d382dde79e
203 On The Run.flac:8e84f1b978c81065b3fc81a0f97a7ae2
204 Time.flac:2683923c87065f7fffc386f1bfb4aea4
205 The Great Gig In The Sky.flac:7ad673ce835ea738f629cef9a50544d5
206 Money.flac:8b72b1b7f51824455125fbef2b53ee50
207 Us And Them.flac:f96067289569237fa773bddb06877262
208 Any Colour You Like.flac:f7f2ca8efed6849b52b049db20f40adf
209 Brain Damage.flac:c11bfc11d52d70bcd976671ef1e98f23
210 Eclipse.flac:ecca1aaa3715db65781a205b833de780
211 Echoes.flac:292d6b37a6a4095adb4b313561c1c85c


Torrent History: Originally seeded to Mind-Warp PaVilion by xuncat on November 25, 2007.


Thanks to schnittstelle for gathering information. :)

WackoBros&Sista thank the Harvested boys for their releases :D


-------------------------------------------------------

More notes (from the mailing list):


Big thanks to Dr. Alan Choo-Kang for helping kick start this re-weed offer. Taken from the Mike Millard tape archives (see info link below) this may well be the top aud.recording from 75'...if not it's close! An amazingly detailed sound quality, great playing, and an almost as enjoyable inbetween song tune-ups, make this a very cool listen indeed. HRV folks have done a nice job of stitching the gaps in the original source with the alternate source to complete the show, and in addition managed to retain that sort of master copy feel of the recording.

I have (2) copies of this to offer up to the 1st two to reply w. their snail mail address and a promise to re-weed. In addition and additional copy has been sent to Danny L. Blake (USA) to re-weed. Thanks!
B.




I have two copies available for reweeders. Ian Brooks provided this material to me to you.

Here's my (unqualified) assessment of this beautifully done roio:

DSotM as a concept has been a bit of a paradox for me. In the lyrics the band goes to extremes to discuss violence, murder, maddness, etc, but at the same time there is a hopeful feel to the music tones. The music betrays the lyrics, or redemption from suffering, perhaps.

My point is that because of the paradox I had been kind of turned off to the material, until today. In this roio, I really like how beautifully the band plays to such an insane audience. Mind you the sound is ultra clean, the audience only comes into play between songs. A perfect balance. This resolved my paradox.

Get it Get it Get it









The other day I finally had the pleasure of listening to Cruel But Fair.

Unbelievable.

Not long ago I wrote a rambling post about how the Boston 1975 show had long been my favorite 1975 roio, but that the Harvested Steel Breeze set was even better. Well, Cruel But Fair has outdone even that.

This could easily be a legitimate release. As a matter of fact, there was one point during "Echoes" in which I thought to myself 'This sounds every bit as clear and brilliant as the studio version'. The performance is great, the recording is great, the artwork is great. This show just fantastic, and that is really what I think. ;-)

The 'Frankenshow' bit during HAC is noticeable, but that's okay. I'm torn between wanting 'purity' in shows and wanting something that feels complete. Having a big chunk taken out of that song would have disrupted my enjoyment. Remind me--was that added section taken from an alternate source of the same show? Or was it from a different show entirely?

Finally, Roger's words about the security personnel just before the intermission are priceless.

Great work, Ron, Ed, and everyone else.

I've already sent out my 3 weed copies, so watch for new offers.


Mike McInnis






The patch I used for HAC was taken from the Boston show. To my knowledge no other recording of L.A. 26Apr75 exists, so this part of HAC from L.A. was never recorded (it was lost during the tape flip).

Cheers!

Marc-Olivier


---


Hi folks,

A while ago I promised a review, and moving delayed it a bit, but here it is...

HRV CDR 026- Cruel But Fair- 4/26/75- Los Angeles, California

I'd have to say that this show has taken the reigns from Steel Breeze as my favorite show of the post DSotM/pre-WYWH era. The band have polished the new songs to the point that they would sound just fine on an album as-is, barring a few awkward lyrical passages (that Rog! Always trying to say too much in not enough time...). They are definitely in fine form as well, as well as in seemingly good spirits. Rog even gets in a dig at the security for interfering with the fans' enjoyment of the show. I believe that this is the gig that inspired the scene in the Wall movie where fans are rioting outside the arena, as well. Who knows what Rog knew of the hassling that was going on by the authorities at the time, so his comments toward security are even more amusing, to me anyway.

The art is incredible, as usual, but it would have been nice to have the tracklisting on the tray art. I especially like the positioning of the band on the inside of the booklet- it's a really cool effect.

The show begins with some tuning which, by the way, would have been nice to have as their own tracks so we don't have to FF 3 minutes before each song starts. It's fine if you're going for the ambience of a show (which actually comes through on this recording. All we'd need is some pot and a few cops around to complete the effect. I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to arrange, either), but I tend to listen to most of my shows on long car trips and tuning doesn't come across too well when you're going 70 in a beat up old Chevy. Rog finally speaks up with, "I think we're ready." and repeats himself numerous times for his own amusement. "This is a new song called Raving and Drooling I Fell on His Neck with a Scream. I hope you like it...." Thumping bass takes us into the song before Rog enters with his title vocal and Rick comes in with piercing synth sounds. There is a nice build up, via a Dave/Rick duel from 9:00 to 10:10 and nice guitar work, somewhat reminiscent of the build in Echoes, just prior to the climax at 10:25. At 12:10 Rog unleashes with an incredible scream, which sent chills down my back the first time I heard it. The song ends in much the same manner as it does on Animals, and the crowd gives only polite applause at what I felt was an incredible version of the tune.

"You either get it or you won't!" states Captain Obvious...erm... Roger as Dave begins strumming the chords to You Gotta Be Crazy. The song benefits tenfold from the fact that Dave gets to breathe every few words rather than spewing out War and Peace before each verse ends. It's a good thing that the band decided to add the middle-synth section on the album, because prior to where the break occurs (and before the 'and when you lose control' line) since they play nearly the same instrumental break twice. It is very good, especially Dave's playing, but I can picture the audience wondering if they messed up. Actually, Dave's playing on the whole of the song is quite passionate, and you can tell that he is pinpointing what he wants to do with the track musically, as his playing resembles the album quite a bit. The song humorously ends with no one hitting the high 'Dragged' and everyone coming back in at 'down'. After some tuning Rog describes the epic they just played as, "a cruel song, but fair."

Roger introduces SOYCD I-V as having "something to do with Syd Barrett." Captain Obvious strikes again as he adds, referring to Syd, "who some of you might remember... and some of you won't." Rick with the usual, but always hauntingly beautiful, synth intro, though he's a bit too trigger happy with the vibrato lever. The four note riff always gives me chills, and this show is no exception. The track isn't very different from what ends up on WYWH, but the transition directly after the last lyric is still awkward and there is no sax solo. Rick instead plays an ascending set of notes at the very end before Dave interrupts with the intro to Have a Cigar.

Why the band decided on having Roy Harper sing HaC on the album will always be a mystery to me, as I quite enjoy the Rog-Dave harmony on most of the live versions I've heard, and I'm sure they would have made it sound perfect in the studio. The song takes a noticeable downturn in SQ in the second verse, as there was a tape flip I assume, requiring Dr. FrankenToon to patch it (musically seamless I might add) with a different show. Dave has a great, punchy solo in the middle. I quite like how they end HaC here and segue into SOYCD VI-IX- Dave's "Gravy Train" vocal abruptly turns into the atmospheric intro- and the more I hear it the more I prefer it to the WYWY-SOYCD transition that ended up on the album. Just switch WYWH and HaC's place on the album- it seems a better fit to me, musically.

Rick again plays with the vibrato a bit too much for my taste in his intro, but makes up for it with some short, but interesting staccato playing behind Dave at 3:00. We get to my favorite part of the piece, the funky section, around 7:10, but unfortunately it doesn't last very long, and doesn't get very funky... more in the vein of a Phish jam for a few moments. Nick's drumming stands out here for the first time as he punctuates Roger and Dave's short guitar bursts before they all fade out into Rick's drone at 10:30. Rick plays a few snippets of Syd songs amongst other noodling (which may be other Syd songs, but I'm not overly familiar with his stuff) before fading out himself. Again, the audience can only muster polite applause until Rog, as mentioned earlier, berates the security staff, at which the audience gets noticeably louder. Thus ends the first set.

Disc two begins with a firecracker, hereby ending my description of the audience as polite. The heartbeat can be heard behind the whoops and whistles of the audience. We hear a police siren, which then suddenly ceases, replaced seconds later with UFO-like sounds. "I've been mad for fucking years..." plays, and then we hear more strange sounds, which sound like they'd be better off in On the Run. The screams come from out of nowhere and we're into Breathe.

Dave plays an untraditional guitar intro to the tune that is quite enjoyable. Roger throws in some nice bass work during vocal breaks. And just like that the song is done...

On the Run is definitely more primal than the tune we came to hear in the '94 renditions. Lots of different effects being played with, including what sounds like outtakes from the Several Species sessions at 2:20. Several vehicular sounds, including race cars and airplanes lead up to the big explosion at 3:45. We get some high pitched squealing over the droning of after-effects of an explosion before the tick-tocking sound joins us.

The tocking suddenly stops as the alarms go off signifying it's Time, but quickly they start up again in what seems to be a mishap. Nick's tom tom intro isn't very exciting, perhaps because they sound farther off than the rest of the band. Rick sings 'lying supine in the sunshine', marking his first noticeable, yet welcome, vocals in the show. Dave plays an underwhelming solo afterward, including a very awkward transition at 3:40, like he wasn't ready quite yet. We also hear some odd screeching from his guitar, so he had some sort of issue. The Breathe reprise is complete with an incredibly similar bass intro to the one that appears on Rog's In the Flesh Live, which Ron had stated some time ago was a new favorite Floyd musical moment. It stands out here as well.

Great Gig starts out with the lovely ladies trading vocals every few measures rather than taking whole sections, and often singing over each other, which actually works quite well. Rick plays some nice organ swells in the background that you have to listen for before switching back to piano mode for the softer section at 2:40. The last section turns into a jazz number, which Nick and Rick do not shy away from, before fading into the sfx of Money.

Money gets a WOoo! from Dave at 1:15 and he really wants that lear jet. Dick Parry's sax makes a grand entrance at 1:55 and blisters through a solo. Dave plays an understated solo in the soft section of the song around the 5:30 mark. The build up to the final verse is disappointing, and the ending finds Dave playing with the word 'away' as Us & Them begins to fade in.

The guitar arpeggio is simply done- no real fx like on the album and one note at a time and stays as such for most of the tune. Rick overpowers Dave vocally during the 'angry' section of the song. The ladies take the echoes after Dave sings the initial word, sometimes annoyingly overemphasizing the word. Rick and Dave flub the first line in the second 'angry' section. Parry's solo is very tasteful, quite a contrast to the previous song's solo. Rick and Dave get the final verse right and we're into Any Colour.

Rog plays some more cool bass fills during the first minute or so, even after Rick comes in with his synth solo. Rog continues to play around with the bass line, seemingly having quite a good time with it. Ricks synth overpowers Dave's guitar during Dave's entrance and the first few measures of his solo. Things settle a bit at 3:30 as Dave plays staccato and the ladies woooooh over the tune for the next couple of minutes. Nick starts to play for the build at around 6:00, and it is gradual until just before the 7 minute mark when things begin to pick up. We get a Fleetwood Mac 'The Chain' type jam going at 7:45. They abruptly begin the transition to Brain Damage at 8:20, cutting the most interesting part of this version short.

Dave takes over where Rog left off by playing some interesting guitar fills during the vocal breaks. He also harmonizes with Rog on one verse. The build to Eclipse isn't what it should be, and Rog seems tired as he sings the verses. Dave, on the other hand is belting the words out like mad. The tune ends anti-climacticly, and we get a few thank yous before we cut to the encore.

"And this is called Echoes. Thank you for coming." The song begins as we'd expect, with the exception of the lovely ladies adding some beautiful choral harmony to the verses. We get some Parry after the verses end, adding an interesting element to the mix. I've never been sure whether I like the sax in the song or not, and this one doesn't help me decide, either. An intense funky part leads to the crying whales, which Dave uses in a more whiny sense- no short, sharp shrills in this one. The build to the climax is very well done- the intensity and suspense was there, which is missing on the few other 74-75 shows I've listened to. The fake-climax gets one audience member to 'wow!', though you have to listen closely to hear him. The real climax is incredible, and the denouement is just as good. The sax works well here, but it would make no sense *just* to have it here and not earlier, so... it's a catch-22. The end sounds eerily like Great Gig at times, but that's not a bad thing. We get one final ping and then

"Thank you, good night."

~Ryan




My First Show = Reviews (Long and Pointless)

Hi Ho All,

A couple of shows I have recently received, The Good Reverend's post about his first show and Terry's post about Cruel But Fair has culminated in the below tale. Pointless but heh, it's Floyd.

We venture back to 1984, and a lovely little record store called Kent Records, which was in Adelaide St in Brisbane. It moved a couple of times before folding in the late 80's/early 90's, but for a few years it was the mecca of roios; mainly dealing in them and independent stuff.

In 1984 I first walked into the store and as was (and still is) habit, headed for the Floyd. And low, record after record were albums I had never seen nor heard of. I didn't know where to start or what to do, so I did the logical thing and asked.

It was fairly obvious the covers were bodgey to say the least, consisting mainly of plain, white cardboard with stuck on photocopies or such. Not your usual Floydian effort. I asked the guy at the counter who was more than confident in his answer, telling me they were rare recordings, demos, practice sessions and such. "This one for example is Dark Side of the Moon during rehearsals in David Gilmour's garage for example" he told me, or words to that effect. That was a good enough description for me; "I'll take that one!" "And that one is one of the great festivals of their hippy days back before Dark Side of the Moon" he continued, and again was good enough for me. "I'll take that one!" Ahh the stupidity of being 16; but am I damn glad or what!

At that point my budget was blown big time, I held in my hand the two most expensive albums I'd ever bought, and I had a long bus trip home before I could listen to them. The covers told me nothing other than sad pics, bad album titles and song titles, some I didn't even know they existed.

Which to play first!!!!!!

And the winner was "Beyond the Stars", the garage version of DSotM. The pic on the front was a feeble attempt at a space ship floating past a planet with a billion tiny stars behind it all. It said it was 1972 and listed half a dozen songs from DSotM. The pic wasn't actually stuck on, so when I slid that out, beneath was "The Rolling Stones: Spend it so Fast" Now that just tricked me up; innoncent wasn't I?

So the album started, and fumbleded it's way into Breathe, thus convincing me it was as the shop guy had described. A horrid, fuzzy, reverberating, poorly sung, sadly played, pathetically recorded version of DSotM unfolded before my ears. Some of the songs didn't exist as I knew them, others were slower, deader, duller, than that wonderful piece we all know and love. By the time I flipped it over and started up money I was laughing. This was obviously a joke and I had been had. I could imagine the shop keeper enjoying his hard earned that night at my expense, but we live and learn.

And then the album cut out, half way through Eclipse. And was I surprised!!!! No! I was probably amazed it got that far. There was a suitable pause in the proceedings before Echoes jumped in, half way through, then a few minutes later faded out, and that was it.

I enjoyed the opening to Money because I heard the whole bass line once through before the band kicked in; that was cool. But that was it.

So next came "Germersheim" The picture on the cover showed the band having a drink, standing next to a van; normal, band behaviour. A double lp with AHM, StCftHotS, OOtD, Eugene, Echoes and ASoS. A good selection of songs, but I wondered why no Corporal Clegg or Gnome, my favourites from their early days 'before DSotM' as the shop guy said! You have to love ignorance sometimes!!! At least I could look forward to OoTD.

I soon figured out that this one was a live concert. Roger talking to the crowd, the crowd clapping etc. Couldn't really mistake it could you? But did the performance stick? No. Except One of These Days. Bull at a gate version or what! It just went like the clappers, absolutely stunning. Loved it and laughed at it as well. And that was it.

I probably played them a few more times over the next few years, just in cas e I had missed something the first time. But it seemed that I hadn't.

Over the years I kept returning to Kent records and picking up various records, but always putting them back, knowing they were crap, horrid sounding, muffled rubbish that should be illegal ;-) Until the 88 Floyd tour came my way, I enjoyed a wonderful night (yes I cried!!, no surprises there) and found myself in Kent records a few weeks later holding a copy of "Tongue Tied and Twisted". It wasn't the show I went to, but it was the tour I went to and that was good enough. And right next to it was "A Little Black Book with My Peoms In". And in my pocket was enough cash for both. My tour and my fave album live (The Wall) so I bought em, why the hell not!

Tongue Tied and Twisted (Nov 87) was great. A great recording of the full show, I was in heaven, reliving the moment. Played it again and again and again. Taped it for the car, and played it over and over; sometimes not driving anywhere, just to hear it in the car which was better than the stereo in the house.

I've Got a Little Black Book with My Poems In (Dortmund 81) was crap. A repeat of my first two ventures, a tinny, scratchy sort of sound that was like the band were busking. Where was the power, where was the guts and anger that just oozed out of The Wall? It joined it's two mates in the never to be played again, we live and learn, pile.

Now we skip to 1994. Australia saw the release of the Unauthorised/Unofficial cds by Jokers et al, ranging from $5-$10 AUS in all good junk shops. So, being so cheap, I bought them all, each and everyone I could find. I walked home with a batch of half a dozen on my first trip and decided to start at the beginning. Pink Floyd Live Vol1 (1972). Return of a laughable nightmare or what! It was only half way through Breathe before I went to the cupboard, pulled out Beyond the Stars and put it on. It was almost in stereo. Both recordings sounded identical, yet there were obvious subtle differences in the versions. And, then, after all those years, even with the obvious clues, it struck me.

I was still shaking my head, looking at the unplayed discs on the floor thinking, well it could be alright. Some of it may be listenable. So I tried Roger Waters Live Vol1 (1987, Westwood One). Wow!!!! It just blew me away!!!! So they could be brilliant. A stunning performance and stunning recording. The other discs gave me Wish You Were Here live, but the vocal was very soft; a collection of different songs, all quite well recorded, but no details of what they were (some I'd never heard, or not like this anyway) and some performances from 88-89. No details, no complete shows, not even sure they were the same show.

Because of this, my mind travelled back to a stash of TAPs I had, and the pages in some that described these albums that seemed to be the same thing, but altogether different. And then the 2nd revelation struck; ok, ok, I'm a dunderhead! So with deft research I started to figure out what most of them were. A copy of Miles filled in a few more blanks, and in the meantime I scooped up most of the rest of what the junk shops had to offer. I was very impressed to get a 94 show in 94. That made up for the fact they weren't coming to Oz at least.

Skip to '97 and my first brush with the Net. And there was a whole world out there!! A whole world of these shows. I soon figured out the rules of tape trading, went through various lists looking, looking, looking for what it was I wanted. Raving and Drooling and Gotta Be Crazy. For years I had read about them. TAP had a 'development of ..." article describing them. That was my goal; simple really. So I took the big step and wrote my first email to a total stranger who had a long list of everything in the hope of getting copies of those tracks.

The reply was short and sweet; thanks but no thanks!
:-(
But he did point me to Echoes. "Write to this addy, with what you have, and you will get a trade" So I did. With my humble list of a handful of shows. I had two replies, and a month or so later I had a ton of stuff. I had managed to cover shows from 72 to 91 and I was infected.

But fussiness set in, and this modern era of mini-discs and DATs spoilt me, as they have all of us. The never ending quest for perfection. The need for the best equipment, angles, shots (dvdoios no less!!!), stereo sound, sound checks; you name it, we can get it; some of us demand it the next day no less!

And, to the point of this long winded load of dribble, and then, the good folks at Harvested give us; Project Birmningham and Run Rabbit Run (sort of). I sit in my office at home. I'm surrounded by the 21st C. I have countless reference books, articles, web site links, many many shows, videos, films, vcd's, dvds, mpegs, some of which are top notch, "official" release in sound and artwork. I have all there is to have in demos, outtakes, rare and rubbish. I have umpteen copies of this album and that. Umpteen upgrades of this show or that. And with tours still going and yet to come, I have plenty more to look forward to. When PB and RRR landed on by bench it was a case of more of the same; another show.

But when they went into the player, well!! This epic is the result. With RRR I could again hear the garage band I had heard 2 decades ago. The tinny, weird, sad sound, of a wonderful wonderful show! The jams in Any Colour You Like and On the Run are a class on their own. I'm happy to just put them on, playing only those tracks. And PB relives the glory days of microphones hidden in armpits; terrific stuff indeed. Another great performance. So many happy memories came flooding back to me. Different shows both of them, but the sound, the daring, the risk those tapers went to all those years ago to give it to us today.

So I know that doesn't tell you much about RRR and PB, and to those who started their collections with the DAT era, or the 'proffesionally' recorded BBC / Westwood One shows, well you may not understand nor even care. Disregarding them as "poor", happy to own it, but not keen to listen to it. But there are many here who will read this and know what I'm talking about. Some of you could add to it no doubt, harder tales of trading reel to reels, and finding each other at fairs. This tale has been for you.

For the folks at Harvested who found them and shared them. For Buddy who reminded me of "My First Show" in a mail, and Terry who inspired me to finish this mail which I started weeks ago. I look forward to getting Cruel But Fair for all the reasons above. For Raving and Drooling and Gotta Be Crazy, the tracks that urged me to write that first mail.

In case you are wondering, I treasure those few lps, now knowing their value both in $ and as a part of me. And for all my cringing and laughing at those "crappy" recordings, they are the ones I play 9 times out of 10! I love 'em all!

Rock On
Christopher

i am remotely morty





Re: My First Show = Reviews (Long and Pointless)

<< Long and Pointless

Huh??? Pointless?..............

Now THIS is the reason that Harvested exists for you ALL!!!! How inspiring, tear inducing, goose bumping....like a tube train up your spine. Thanks again to all of you, especially Terry, and now Chris who shared much more than a review. I AM inspired.

Who is this RonToon? What's HIS story? Where were his humble beginnings? How did he 1st get into Floyd? And how did all this bootleg stuff start? Yes...BOOTLEG!!! I LOVE that word... NO problem uttering it here in this forum...that's what it's about (just replace the monetary part with the sharing part).

As promised, today I'm gonna sit down and begin a writing journey that will reveal the man behind the curtain. Hopefully it will give you a bit more insight to where I came from and why I do what I do....and why I love the music so much.

Regards as always,
RonToon




RE: [harvested-weeds] Re: My First Show = Reviews (Long and Pointless)

Howdy all,

Thanks for coming out of the closet Ron :). Bootlegs, yeah, thats what we called those r***'s in the old days. When I was ten years old my schoolmaster let us enjoy a beautiful song, just released. I didn't knew of course what it was, but he planted a small seed then... It started to grow when I was about 12, sniffing around in a local recordshop. I discovered a nice pair of lp's with an intriguing cover... A Nice Pair! I bought this recordset and was hooked for life. When I later bought More, still on lp, I knew what I heard when I was ten..., Cirrus Minor. At the age of 16 I bought my first bootleg lp, The Screaming Abdab, and many followed. Every time I listened to TSA I enjoyed the music, the sound, and the great quality of the vinyl. Still have it (and all my other bootleg lp's) and recently converted to cdr. That was before Cruel but Fair was released :). It still has just a few crackels after all those years. I also bought Crackers, a tripple lp bootleg and The Best of Tour 92. Those three where my favorits... Still collecting bootlegs of course, now trading and weeding cdr's. And I still enjoy it very, very much. I collect all kind of official releases, but bootlegs are more exciting, more... what shall I say... "I wished I had been there". I have a trading site my self and a pretty nice collection, still growing, and almost all of the Harvest releases. The Harvested team does a very nice job on spreading all kind of rare material throughout the world. Ron and the team, a big THANKS!

So, having said all this, back to deep lurking mode again...

cheers, Roelof




RE: [harvested-weeds] Re: My First Show = Reviews (Long and Pointless)

On 25 May 2002 at 18:29, Roelof Hofma wrote:

> At the age of 16 I bought my first bootleg lp, The Screaming Abdab,
> and many followed.

That wasn't quite my first, but it was close to it. For many, many years that was at the top of my "If the house is burning down, this is the stuff I have to grab!" list.

It's a thrill to have "Getting Better All the Time" present the same show without the clumsy editing! For over 20 years, I had no idea that "Shine On" was missing the first few notes!







Re: [harvested-weeds] Re: My First Show = Reviews (Long and Pointless)

Hi Ho All,

Cheers for the kind words. And people say you shouldn't dwell on the past!

> Who is this RonToon? What's HIS story? Where were his humble
> beginnings? How did he 1st get into Floyd? And how did all
> this bootleg stuff start? Yes...BOOTLEG!!! I LOVE that word...
> NO problem uttering it here in this forum...that's what it's
> about (just replace the monetary part with the sharing part).

Now if I'd known that! To me, that word is all part of it. That word says in one word what my post was trying to say. I'll remember that next time and cc Echoes an edited version.

> As promised, today I'm gonna sit down and begin a writing
> journey that will reveal the man behind the curtain. Hopefully
> it will give you a bit more insight to where I came from and
> why I do what I do....and why I love the music so much.

Well where's part two!!!! Your snippet of WYWH Ron reminds me of ...

Maybe next time ;-)

Rock On
Christopher

i am remotely morty








Review & Offer: Cruel But Fair

"Cruel But Fair" is quite simply one of the best ROIOs I've heard in a long time. It's an audience recording, but it's a _great_ audience recording. The people near the taper seem to be very well behaved and the seat appears to have been in just about the perfect spot. It's extremely difficult to believe that this was done on the sly with 1975 portable analog equipment! The tape is also very well-preserved--if there are any dropouts or other analog annoyances, they're so minor that I've already forgotten them. This one right up there with "Getting Better All the Time", another phenomenal audience recording, though I think "Cruel But Fair" is even better. The set itself doesn't have any real suprises content-wise, though it's a very fine show and presented about 99% complete on this set. I say "99%" because there's a patch in "Have a Cigar" that I assume covers a tape- flip in the original and which I also assume is from a different show. You'll notice it, but it's very skillfully done and infinitely less distracting than if the cut had simply been left as is.

One thing that _is_ surprising is how much we get to hear Roger talk, both to the audience (mostly nicely) and to what I assume was the arena security folks (not nicely at all). He even provides the inspiration (a Monty Python reference) for the CD title. My guess is that Monty Python was on all their minds at the time because they were in the process of helping to finance "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" right around then. There's a certain spontaneity and informality that's missing from a lot of PF shows, especially the ones from later years. This is a set well worth having.

Anyway, I have five SHN copies to go to those who can pass it on and two audio copies for the burnerless. I'm afraid I'm going to have to be a tightwad this time and stick to those numbers because I'm running out of Mitsuis and time! I'll choose more or less randomly from the responses I get that have addresses, with preference given to those I can't remember weeding to in the past. I'd like to send one copy overseas (I'm in the US), as well. Enjoy!



Re: Review & Offer: Cruel But Fair

Jeff wrote:
> there's a patch in "Have a Cigar" that I assume covers a tape-
> flip in the original and which I also assume is from a different
> show.

You're right. The patch in "Have A Cigar" was done to cover a tape-flip. I used the Boston show (18Jun75) to do the patch.

Cheers!

Marc-Olivier








WEED + Review: Cruel But Fair (LONG)

In 1996, when I first started getting into trading ROIOS (not that I knew that term then), I was working for a Microsoft Support Call Center and ran into a co-worker who loved Floyd as much as I did. Now, I had a fair number of silver-pressed CD’s, including a first pressing of Great Dane’s Total Eclipse Box set and a few other nice gems on vinyl. So, this guy and I would bring selected items to work and lend them to each other for taping. This was my first introduction to many shows because I hadn’t quite navigated the Net enough to find any Internet sources besides the ROIO dB (Mecca!!!!). He gave me a bunch of great shows, which I would bring home and put on cassette. Now, in many cases, the whole CD wouldn’t fit, so I would normally break it out into 2 tapes and use filler, such as I did with the incredible Maurespechte and Oakland ’77. Although, in some cases, I just plopped down the stuff I wanted to hear and abandoned the rest due to lack of blanks. One such show was Movin’ Time from ’75.

Movin’ Time was my first exposure to a ’75 show and I fell immediately in love. Roger’s attitude, the sound of Dave’s guitar, and the only versions of Raving and Drooling /YGGBC I had heard besides the Total Eclipse versions. Although incomplete (missing the Dark Side set), I played this show through and through for years up until now. It never left the car and was always the first choice when I had a newbie who wanted to hers “some Floyd”

Well, when I read about this new Harvested release and saw that it was the same show, I broke out of my trading hiatus. This was MUST HAVE! And thanks to RonToon (and Scott’s mighty FTP), I have it to weed out to 3 lucky folks In the US.

A review…

DISC 1

Fireworks…oh, boy…we’re in for a rough night…on my tape copy of Movin’ Time, I had cut out most of this…or maybe that release was already edited up to Rog saying “We’re ready…*I* think we’re ready...” Anyway, I love to hear the crowd getting ready as the band does. Lots of tuning…maybe Ron should release a disc of just PF tuning up (oh, yeah, someone did…it’s called Knebworth ’75).

“It’s a new one…I hope you like it.”

“Raving and Drooling” man…after years of listening to that tape, this is incredible!!! Rog and Co just kick into this one like gangbusters. although I still think “He had a whole lot of terminal shock in his eyes” is embarrassing…someone must have noticed that Rog sounds a little dry here, because a nice wet echo is added to his vocal on the second verse. I still love to wonder what the crowd reaction was to this tune in ’75. *Nothing* like WYWH or Dark Side. Just spitting venom and bile a year or two before punk would emerge to challenge PF’s place in musical heritage. What I love here is the mid-section around 12:40, where Rog starts screeching and we get a real early-seventies feel a la ‘Eugene’…just beautiful

The sound of the pastoral chords that introduce ‘You Gotta Be Crazy’, even while tuning, just relax me. Rog says’ “Here’s the next one...you want me to announce it? You’ll either get it or you won’t! Here it is...” Wow…that still strikes me the same way it did in ’96 when I first heard it. A brilliant version…great interplay between Rick and Dave. My assistants all stopped and came into the office to sit and listen while it played…very cool…and cruel...

“It was A Cruel Song But Fair”

“...another new number. It has something to do with Syd Barrett who some of you may remember. Some of you won’t” To refer to Shine On as a tune…man...it always strikes me how, for a band who is so into the *Event” of it all, Rog’s banter sounds like he’s in a club introducing James Taylor covers. In any case, Shine On gets a regal interpretation here…I love the way they used the wind noises to segue songs in ’77. Anyway, pt 1-5 are faithfully represented, despite Rog’s faltering voice…I think the first number did him in!

I LOVE the keyboard segue into HAC…incredible feeling that gives me…don’t know why…a raunchy rendition, full of grunge and bluster. What happens with “we’re just knocked out?” Major change in sound quality for a second. Is this from the source?

The segue into SOYCD 6-9 is a little sloppy but fine by me…here’s the payoff for the first set…like Echoes, it’s hard to make this piece bad. A trip through space…peeling back the layers along the way. Funk and fury. And you can smell the cannabis rising as this crowd (those who hadn’t been busted yet) were just swarming along…the worms in the belly of the beast…they applaud nicely a politely as Rick noodles his way home to close Pt 9. “We’re gonna Come Back Soon…” and then he SCREAMS at the “people in the Yellow Shirts” A true Rog moment! And, one that was mostly cut off on Movin’ Time.

Disc 2

The Second starts with one of the best “Speak to Me’s” I’ve ever heard…this is what I was missing when I didn’t copy all of Movin’ time!!! I sat in my office and all work stopped as I let it climb up the walls and get into my head. As soon as the first chord of Breathe takes over, our audience explodes!!

‘Breathe’ is crisp and relaxed…hard to describe, but it has that ‘70’s’ sound to it…does that make sense? Warm, analog….comforting. But not muddy. Relax…take it in…

‘On The Run’…once again, I love this performance, because it’s ‘performed’…not out of the can, the way it became and has become. Not knowing every little note lends to the eerie quality of it. Especially around 2:40…yikes!! What the hell was that, Rick??? When our faithful airplane explodes, I picture all of the fireworks stopping and heads just popping in unison…the denouement as we trail off into Time is breathtaking…stunned silence as that sqiqqly chord just winds down. Back to a moment in the olden days…

‘Time’ eases in gently as opposed to the “I’m playing an album classic’ feel we get so often now. Nick’s rototoms are understated, but still handled nicely. This is one place where I wish the source was a little better. Not much, but a little…what I do love, is the crunch of the guitar (not to mention “lying supine” !!!) here, as opposed to the studio slickness of many other versions. The solo is a mother!!!…a litany of sustain and distortion and volume knob – beautiful…and listen to how the melody lines are handled…bluesy and full of trills…loose…nice…

‘ Great Gig..’ caught a little flub, there Rick…right before the vocals…and that made the vulnerability of the piece even more potent for me. The ladies rip into it with abandon…I like these versions where we have more than one voice at a time. Once again…it’s just another reason why the ’75 versions of all of this stuff is so much better than most (for me). A jazzy interlude by Rick around 5:30 just before we start hearing the old cash register sounds creep in around the back...and away we go…

‘Money’ has a nice gritty quality that makes the umpteen thousandth listening of this tune enjoyable. Once again -. loose and fun. The sound effects are buried off in the rear speakers of the hall, so it seems our taper was fairly close to FOH. The solo section churns along like a motorboat on a quiet lake…smooth, enjoyable…the wind blowing through your hair and just slow enough to catch the sun on the water, before you’re off again…played loud for maximum effect…the Dark Side section in general is an immersion piece here…catch the ’Raving and Drooling’ bass line that Rog falls into right before the final push towards the last verse…

‘Us and Them’ includes the little synth overlay in the intro that (once again) distinguishes the ’75 performances…is it just me, or does everyone else just fu**ing weep when they hear those first notes of the melody? Moosebumps, man…What can I say about this one? I’ve been missing this performance all these years. The ladies handle the echo on “Us, us, us…” and so forth. The only problem here is some saturation during the louder passages, but I’m sure that’s a problem with the source…not much you can do, even through normalization…

‘Any Colour’ sounds a little distant…the keys may have been in the quad stacks? Odd…yes, a little muddy sounding, but still a kaleidoscope of mid-seventies noodling…of course what makes this one so great all the time is knowing what’s next. Of course, what we get here is an amazing groove as the ladies and Dave get into it low down and dirty…Isaac Hayes style…and then we get an example of rog doing his damn best to keep up as they rip through the ending, gradually slowing down to fall like a feather onto a pillow for:

‘Brain Damage’. Featuring Roger ‘Christ! I finally get to sing again!” Waters, on vocals. And…he sounds sad...or slow…tape speed? Not his best turn on this song, unless maybe he was just as moved as I was by the rest of the piece and he’s crying. Maybe not. Oddly limp, though. Not the best performance of this one. Listen to the guitar sound, though…sounds like OBC.

Now “Eclipse” comes on as grandiose as one would expect. But still, Rog sounds like a bag of wet lettuce. Maybe he was just fed up with the crowd, or he missed a chance to meet Linda Ronstadt that day, but in any case, Dave and the ladies fill in nicely and the audience goes nuts as the bells chime. “Thank you...good night” we get from both Dave and Rog…fade to black…

“Thanks” signals the return to the stage and the hint of sea bird noise from Dave tells us what’s to come…

Someone yells “Echoes” way off in the distance…they know. “Ok. If you lot up here could bob down a bit….this is called Echoes. Thank you for coming” Or however you reacted…

It sounds a bit heavy handed, but there’s really no way to ruin this song…not even in ’87, although they really tried, didn’t they? Here we have an average performance of a fantastic song…nothing too much to say…”Thank you. Good Night”

3 copies to good homes…SHN preferred and I would like to see a cc: to me on the reweeding offer.

Peace,

Terry
www.floydconvergence.com



Re: WEED + Review: Cruel But Fair (LONG)

Terry wrote:
> What happens with "we're just knocked out?" Major change in sound
> quality for a second. Is this from the source?

As I said in a previous email, the mastertape misses that verse because of a tape-flip. I did a patch to re-insert the missing verse, from another show (Boston 18Jun75).

Cheers!

Marc-Olivier



Weed Offer (Europe): Cruel But Fair 1975-04-26
Hi all,

Thanks to Dirk Kalender and the Harvested team three slots are available for this excellent weed.

The SQ even surpasses "Steel Breeze" and the boys are in a more relaxed mood. IIRC some police scenes from "The Wall" film were inspired by these LA shows. Paradoxically you can't hear any indication of pre-show riots, the audience sounds very well behaved.

The best 1975 ROIO I've heard so far. A must have.

shn-re-weeders only at this point of time. Please don't forget your postal address.

Bye,
Ralf








WEED ANNOUNCEMENT

Hello Everyone,

It's that time again.

The team at Harvested is proud to offer up our latest title:

Cruel But Fair
HRV-CDR-026
Los Angeles
April 26, 1975

First set:
Raving and Drooling
You Gotta Be Crazy
Shine On You Crazy Diamond (1-5)
Have A Cigar
Shine On You Crazy Diamond (6-9)

Second Set:
Dark Side of the Moon

Encore:
Echoes


What can I say about this show that you don't already know. The sound quality is excellent as is the performance. Unlike some other versions of this show, Cruel But Fair has the complete performance.

This show is available for download from Scott's server:

ip: [supressed info]
user: harvested
pass: cruelfair
port: 6969

We hope you enjoy it.

This show has been around the block a few times. Those of you with 'Dogs and Sheeps' or 'Moving Time' will definitely want to upgrade as those issues were incomplete. For those that have 'Terminal Shock', I don't know. This title is supposedly complete, but I don't have a copy of it. Perhaps someone who does could post a review to let us know.

Regards,
Ed.






Comment: Cruel But Fair

Simply one of the best performances from the 1975 US tour, here in far superior quality to the "Dogs and Sheeps" ROIO. The first set is especially scintillating, and Rog's rant at security at the end of that set is priceless. Even the sax version of Echoes (which generally I am not a fan of) works beautifully here. If one were to pick out, say a half-dozen must-have Floyd ROIOs, this would be on my list. Jeff S.    -jasontag@csionline.net last edited - 2002-09-15 : orig entered - 2002-09-15

http://www.pf-db.com/index.php?concert_id=104&bootleg_id=681








Comment: Millard Master
Pink Floyd
Sports Arena
Los Angeles, CA.
25-APR-1975
Millard tape > DAT > CDR(1) > EAC (secure mode) > flac(8)

Disc 1:
1. Raving and Drooling
2. You Gotta Be Crazy
3. Shine On You Crazy Diamond Parts I-V
4. Have a Cigar
5. Shine On You Crazy Diamond Parts VI-IX

Disc 2:
1. Speak to Me
2. Breathe
3. On the Run
4. Time
5. Breathe Reprise
6. The Great Gig in the Sky
7. Money
8. Us and Them
9. Any Colour You Like
10. Brain Damage
11. Eclipse
12. Echoes

This show has been bootlegged (pressed to silvers) as "The Late Great Millard Tapes". The bootleg is not in the linage of this show. I guess you could call this pre-bootleg.

Notes from Mustardpie:
Torrented by The Hirsute Swine at The Traders' Den, 2004-11-28 Torrented by Mustardpie at Easytree, In the forum on this show at The Traders' Den (http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/showthread.php?t=974&page=1&pp=20), The Hirsute Swine said that he extracted these files from a CDR with EAC in secure mode. The log files are included in this torrent. The CDR was made from a DAT that was a copy of a single Millard tape. The original linage listed as MIllard Master > DAT [...] suggests that Millard recorded the DAT--that's probably is not quite so. "Tape mastered by Millard" would likely be more accurate. This recording is nevertheless a pre-bootleg source with known lineage. As such it should be superior to the various bootlegs made from potentially higher generation sources. HRV CDR 026 "Cruel but Fair" (currently a dead torrent at Easytree: http://www.easytree.org/torrents-details.php?id=8618&hit=1) is made from a Millard tape, but without lineage. "The Late Great Millard Tapes", Highland HL644/645/646 (3 disk set) is another bootleg of this recording, but of unknown lineage, and files from that bootleg circulating amongst traders may have been remastered and transcoded (see http://homepage.ntlworld.com/j.kerr/other_PF.htm). The files in this torrent are more directly straight from the source tapes. The only file in the original torrent that I have modified this text file. I modified the lineage in the light of information from the poster of the original torrent, and I added these notes. The FLACs, fingerprints and .log files are exactly as I have received them from the original torrent. I offer this torrent here only to share this great recording of a great show to a wider audience. Those who acquired this show from The Traders' Den can thus easily help seed.
floydian_from_buffalo    -
last edited - 2005-06-03 : orig entered - 2005-06-03


http://www.pf-db.com/index.php?bootleg_id=2012&concert_id=104
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