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Setlist Admin

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Getting Started

First off, you'll find admining a lot easier if you use Firefox instead of Internet Explorer. Not all of the db's features work in Internet Explorer, and you'll find many tasks easier if you use the tab feature of Firefox (CTRL + click on a link) to "blow out" a page into separate tabs. Do yourself a favor: [Get Firefox].

Both SetlistAdmins and SourceAdmins are responsible for maintaining an artist's setlists. We call this the show database. This means three things:
  1. Entering new setlists into the database
  2. Correcting / cleaning up setlists that other users enter
  3. Merging or deleting duplicate, bogus or incorrect setlists
The Golden Rule is that Show listings are generic setlists. They do not include track #s, song timings, recording details, or comments about how individual users keep their collections. That information belongs in a Source listing (if the artist is trader friendly) or on individual user's list notes. When you find that stuff in a Show entry, please remove it.

Where Do I Do The Thing I Do . . .

We try to make it easy for SetlistAdmins. You can click on the "Source Maintenance" link in the upper right corner of the db.etree homepage. (If you don't see that, log in, first.) That takes you to http://db.etree.org/shnmaint where you'll see an admin panel. More on that in a moment.

Another method is to simply browse the show listings for your artist. Start at http://db.etree.org/bs.php and find your artist there. You can browse all of the shows in the database that way, and it's easier to spot duplicates, mistakes, etc. You can edit these entries on the fly by clicking "edit show" or using the in-line editing tools.

A third way to check for shows is using http://db.etree.org/shows_search.php to find a specific artist name and date. There is a similar feature on the /shnmaint page.

Generally, if you work from the /shnmaint page, your changes will go through automatically. If not, you may have to approve your changes in a separate step.

When Users Request Show Changes

Users submit most of the shows in the db, and most of the changes to those shows.

A user can generally edit any show he enters. But, when a user edits a show created by someone else, or if a user tries to add a show for an artist and date where there is already an entry, then an admin must approve the change. That means you. If it's your band, it means you and only you. If the band isn't managed by anyone, then approval is a joint responsibility, shared by all admins.

On the /shnmaint page, you'll see three links in the upper left corner.

x Source Entries (x will be a number)
x Setlist Corrections (x will be a number)
Show Corrections

Source Entries links to pending SHN/FLAC sources for the artist. SourceAdmins can change them; SetlistAdmins can only view them.

Setlist Corrections and Show Corrections bring up queues for two types of user-submitted Show changes. It's your responsibility to visit these links every few days, and process what you find there. If you can see it, then you can and should process it. If it's for your band, then you are the only one who can see it. If you don't make the change, no one will. (Well, maybe Dave or Mark will, eventually, but they'll get pissed off first).

You can approve, reject, or modify these submissions. The mechanism is straightforward. Guidelines for making good decisions follow. The key thing to remember is, if you have a question, [ask the Admin Team]!

What Should A SetlistAdmin Do?

  • A SetlistAdmin should add new shows to the database. Hopefully, other users will do this for you, when they add recordings to their collections. If they don't, then you must.
  • SetlistAdmins should also correct bad setlists. Often, users enter a setlist incorrectly, or incompletely, especially when a band is on tour and folks are in a rush. Every once in a while, load up your band's Shows page, and just "blow out" all of the shows using CTRL + click, and eyeball them for mistakes. You can often find correct setlist info on fan sites, bt.etree.org comments, and other places.
  • SetlistAdmins should correct bad dates. There are two possibilities:
  1. If someone has entered a Show with the wrong date, you can fix it. Just click the edit icon next to the artist's name, and then click the date. Then, edit the date directly (mm/dd/yy). If for any reason you can't do that, please contact the [Admin Team].
  2. If there is already a Show with the right date, or two Shows with the right date, then the Shows have to be merged together. By merging the bad Show into the good one, anyone with the bad Show on his list will wind up with the good show instead. That's better than deleting the bad Show - if a bad Show simply disappears, the owner will just add it again. There is a "merge shows" tool on each Show listing (the Admin Team will approve the change separately), or you can send the showid #s for both Shows, clearly marked as "good" and "bad", to [the Admin Team].

Note: There is no way to delete a show. We can only merge shows. If you find a garbage entry, we can merge it into the [dustbin] but we cannot delete it.

What's The Right Way To Enter Setlists?

There is a right way to enter a setlist. Remember The Golden Rule -- setlists are generic. (Bootlegs and compilations are a special case, and we'll get to those in a moment.)

Why Are Setlists Generic?

Setlists are generic for several reasons:
  • First, like your music collection, it has to be organized somehow. That's how we do it. Don't buck the system!
  • Second, it's simpler this way. There is only one performance: the band played what it played. There can be many different recordings (SBD, AUD, Video, etc.) and many formats (DAT, CDR, DVD, etc.). No matter what media or recording a user has, users can link the master entry for performance to their collections, adding notes along the way, instead of creating endless duplicates.
  • Third, db.etree is not a database of illegal bootlegs. That's what it would become, if users put recording information into the setlists. Instead, db.etree is a database of performances, which does not create copyright problems. If users want to advertise their copyright infringement ("I downloaded this illegal bootleg from somewhere . . .") they can do it on their own lists, without screwing up everyone else's.
  • Fourth, for trader-friendly artists we track recordings in the Source database. Again, each recording is tied to the Show that it came from. Nice, neat, simple.
  • Finally, there are database design reasons for this.

How To Keep Setlists Generic

The Golden Rule of Show entries means:
  • One performance per entry -- create a new Show, don't double up.
  • No track numbers -- tracking varies by recording.
  • No song timings -- track timing varies by recording.
  • No disc 1 or CD 1 -- some people have DATs, etc.
  • No filler -- that's about user's individual collections, not about the artist's performances.
  • No mic/source/transfer information -- either the recording info goes in a Source entry, or the band isn't trade-friendly and we don't keep track.
  • No comments about who recorded the show or what it sounds like. Same as above.

That also means:
  • Only list songs that were actually played.
  • If you can't hum it, it's not a song. Crowd and applause and audience noise are not songs. Neither are intro and outro (99% of the time), encore break, banter, talk, tuning, story about something, etc.
  • Notations like like cut or fades in/out or incomplete are not songs, either. The are recording details. Neither is (omitted),missing, removed and so forth. If the show was cut short for some reason, that's a good piece of info for the comment box. If a recording has cuts, that fact belongs on the Source page. If some torrent somewhere is missing a song, we don't care. If your copy is missing a song, no one else cares: just make a note on your list.
  • Don't Know or No Setlist or TBD should be removed. If the setlist is blank, we obviously don't know what the setlist is.

You'll find little reminders on the "add show" and "edit show" pages for all of this, and also about the date, city, state and venue. But, it's worth repeating here, too:

Dates

  • Never use 00 in a date. Use ?? instead. For example: 08/??/69 for a show played in August 1969.
  • If you don't know the year, use 1939. ??/??/39 means that the show is undated, unknown, or undatable (e.g., a compilation of many dates).
  • If you know the year, but not the date, use this format: ??/??/69. Don't use 01/01/69. No one books a show for January 1 except clowns and magicians.
  • The date of a show is the date is was billed, even if the artist came on after midnight. New Year's Eve shows are dated 12/31/yy not 01/01/yy. No one books a show for 01/01/yy except clowns . . . .
  • Some people like to create series of phony dates: 12/01/50, 12/02/50, 12/03/50, or series (Vol 1, Vol 2, etc.) These should all be ??/??/50 (if 1950 is correct) or ??/??/39.

City, State and Venue

  • Except for bootlegs and compilations (see below), either use the actual name, or use Unknown.
  • Google is great for figuring out where places are, how they should be spelled, etc. If you're not sure, [google] it!
  • The Venue is the name of the place, not the means of distribution. Please use WMMR Studios, not Radio or FM. Likewise, Studio is better than TV or Album or n/a.
  • Festivals can be tough. Try something like High Sierra Music Festival, Main Stage and not just HSMF or Main Stage.
  • City is usually pretty obvious. Please avoid neighborhood names (There is a Chelsea in both New York and London), or at least use both (e.g., Shibuya, Tokyo or Glascow, Scotland). Please write it out, and don't use NYC or SF
  • States should be abbreviated if they are in the US or Canada. Otherwise, they should be the country name, written out.
  • The former British Empire is tough: you can use UK or the particular country: England, Australia, Gibralter, etc. Please do not use Wales (it's not a country) or NSW or AUS or ENG.
  • Province names can be added after the City, if you like, e.g., Osney, Oxford. Yeah, that's inconsistent. But it keeps the English happy.
  • Foreign langauges are OK. Italia is fine. (IT is not.)

Set 1, 2 and 3

  • This is covered above pretty well. Just try to prevent folks from breaking the sets up the way their CDs are broken up. Sets are sets and discs are discs. We keep track of sets not discs.
  • If you want to add the encore or a soundcheck, or set IV, please label it clearly like this: Encore: One Way Out

Comments

  • Comments are NOT the place for source info, taper names, or comments like "please e-mail me with the setlist." E-mail who?
  • Comments are also a bad place for commercial advertising, including links to the band's website. Websites come and go, and we are non-commercial. Users can Google an artist easily enough.
  • Comments are a great place to note official releases and to say "go buy it" or "this should not be traded." Yes, that's inconsistent, but it's good public relations.
  • Comments are great place for historical notes, like "show cancelled due to rain". Links to reviews, pictures, cover art, etc., are great, but no inline images! That means, put in a link to a picture, but don't load the picture. db.etree is slow enough as it is!
  • Comments like "Broadcast on WKCR" are great. "I recorded this from WCKR" is not. Copyright, ya dig?
  • If a show circulates misdated, you can leave the entry in place and cross-reference the correct entry. Try adding a comment like "The band did not perform on this date. Many bootlegs circulate with this incorrect date. If you have this show, you really have <a href="db.etree.org/lookup_show.php?shows_key=XXXXXX">this show</a>. Please add it to your list instead." Note the html tag there, and replace XXXXXX with the correct Show ID. (If you do this, you might add a comment on the correct date, noting that "the performance circulates misdated as xx/xx/xx but this the correct date.") It's all about the documentation.

What About Compilations and Bootlegs?

Compilations and bootlegs present a different challenge. The db wasn't really designed for them, since they usually don't have a single date, city, state or venue. They are often badly documented, and there's no satisfying way to enter them. They can raise copyright issues. Also, the same material circulates over and over under different names and dates. Users enter bootlegs and compilations again and again, with different titles and years, and it's a real mess.

What's The Difference?

Although there is a some overlap, we mean:
  • A Compilation is a collection of songs unrelated by date. These include collections of unreleased material, thematic compilations (many version of one song, collected songs from a particular venue, city or tour, songs played with some guest star), etc.
  • A Bootleg is an commercial (often illegal) production of a particular performance, usually released on CD, vinyl, etc., for profit. Bootlegs are primarily from a single performance but often combine performances or have filler from other dates.

Our philosophy is discourage bootlegs and compilations, but to let folks add them if they want. We need to make them easy to find, because that helps avoid duplicates.

Special Rule For Compilations and Bootlegs

Basically, you can suspend any of the selist rules for a compilation, if you've got a good reason to (except no recording info - it's still a potentail copyright problem). Like, do you really want to change this one? http://db.etree.org/lookup_show.php?shows_key=179140 It's well documented and probably better to leave it alone!

Please remember:
  • You don't have to accept someone's compilation, if all they've done is added filler to a single Show. Just remove the filler. (Filler is about a user's collection habits, not part of the performance.)
  • You can turn many bootlegs into Show entries that work fine. Many bootlegs are primarily one performance with filler. If so, add the Show with the correct date and venue, etc., and add a comment like "Circulates as the Bootleg Whatever It's Called with the following additional tracks . . . ." Here's a good example:
http://db.etree.org/lookup_show.php?shows_key=251268

If you decide to stick with a compilation or bootleg, here are some tips for making good entries:

  • Think about a descriptive name like this:
Bootleg -- "A Night On The Town"
Compilation -- "Best of 2004"

  • Put "Compilation" in the City and State fields. That makes these things easier to find.
  • Choose a sensible date: If no one can find it, someone will just add it again with a different date.
  • Pick a good year -- either the first year in the collection, the predominant year, or if all else fails, 1939 (??/??/39). Do not choose the date it was released or seeded. The Beatles did not play in 2006!
  • Use what you've got: 08/??/75 is better than ??/??/75 and anything is better than 01/01/75.
  • Use the date the show was billed for, even if the band came on after midnight. No one performs on January 1! (Well, sometimes people do: http://db.etree.org/lookup_show.php?shows_key=246284.) New Year's Eve shows should be dated 12/31, no matter when the artist takes the stage.
  • Phony dates are worse than ??s. Some users create fake dates so their shows line up on their lists: 01/01/75, 01/02/75, etc. Undo that, please. ??/??/75 for both.
  • If you've got duplicates, the admin team can merge them together. [Don't be shy!]

Here are some examples of good entries:

http://db.etree.org/lookup_show.php?shows_key=79190 || http://db.etree.org/lookup_show.php?shows_key=161290 || http://db.etree.org/lookup_show.php?shows_key=83641 ||
http://db.etree.org/lookup_show.php?shows_key=118380

Put Yourself In The Artist's Shoes

One last word: put yourself in the artist's shoes. What would you do if you saw the entry that you've got on your screen? Would you run to your lawyer? Or would you be pleased that your fans were so nuts about you? It's one thing to note for the record that a bootleg exists. It's another to turn db.etree into a bootleg site . . . .

There's an Exception To Every Rule

There is one circumstance where you might consider leaving in track #s and timings. Take a peek at this show: http://db.etree.org/lookup_show.php?shows_key=88858 There's so little information to go on, that no one will be able to find that show by the setlist alone. Jazz sessions are often like this. Timings can help to identify material, if there's nothing else to go on. So, use your judgment and let those listings stay the way they are, if you like.

That's basically it. Remember, if you get stuck, or have questions, just [e-mail us] and ask!

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