Grateful Dead 10/11/1983
Madison Square Garden, New York, NY
Source Summary
Sbd > Cassette Master > Dat x 2 > CDR > SHN; plus AUD patches from Jeff Silberman Senn source (see info file); to gdlive via Bob Harrell Note: This is exactly the same seed as the one seeded to etree with the same lineage, but it has noise reduction applied and was seeded to gdlive. ; upgrade in circulation
Sbd > Cassette Master > Dat x 2 > CDR > SHN; plus AUD patches from Jeff Silberman Senn source (see info file); to gdlive via Bob Harrell Note: This is exactly the same seed as the one seeded to etree with the same lineage, but it has noise reduction applied and was seeded to gdlive. ; upgrade in circulation
Other Sources
SHNID 344 FOB Sennheiser 441's > Technics PCM master >...
SHNID 7339 Sbd > Cassette Master > Dat x 2 > CDR > SHN;...
SHNID 7372 Peter Braverman 'fix' of the sub second...
SHNID 26459 noise-reduced and Bertha Remaster of a Master...
SHNID 32644 Recording Info: Beyer M160 -> Cassette Master...
SHNID 91124 flac16 ; Recording Info: (FOB) Sennheiser 441...
SHNID 101949 flac16 ; Lineage: master cassette > cd > eac >...
SHNID 102106 flac16 ; Lineage: master cassette > cd > eac >...
SHNID 103298 flac16 ; Beyerdynamic M-201's xy 90 w/ Marantz...
SHNID 118673 flac16 ; source: (3)audio technica atm11 fob>...
SHNID 120001 flac16 ; 2 source matrix: Soundboard...
SHNID 122215 flac24 ; Updated Lineage: (3)audio technica...
SHNID 135250 flac16 ; 2 Source Matrix by Dusborne;...
SHNID 135285 flac16 ; Master Audience Recorded By Steve...
SHNID 135286 flac24 ; Master Audience Recorded By Steve...
SHNID 137301 flac24 ; Updated Recording Info: (FOB)...
SHNID 137322 flac16 ; Updated Recording Info: (FOB)...
SHNID 143046 flac16/48kHz ; Jim Wise's Master Audience...
SHNID 143047 flac24 ; Jim Wise's Master Audience Cassettes;...
SHNID 143258 flac16/44.1 Master set 1: AUD MC Sennheiser...
SHNID 143259 flac24/48 Master set 1: AUD MC Sennheiser...
SHNID 143610 flac16 ; Mark Cohen's Master (FOB) Audience...
SHNID 143611 flac24 ; Mark Cohen's Master (FOB) Audience...
SHNID 148171 flac16/48kHz ; Source Info: Chris Hecht's...
SHNID 148172 flac24 ; 2nd Set Source Info: Chris Hecht's...
SHNID 152504 2 Beyer M160> Sony TCD5M Master Cassette> SHN...
SHNID 163828 falc1648 Source Info: Jim Vita's Master...
SHNID 163829 flac2496 Source Info: Jim Vita's Master...
SHNID 167345 flac1648 Rob Eaton's Master Audience...
SHNID 167346 flac2496 Rob Eaton's Master Audience...
SHNID 168941 flac16; Matrix by Hunter Seamons using Final...
Grateful Dead
Madison Square Garden
New York, NY.
October 11, 1983
Lineage: SBD > Cassette Master > Dat x 2 > CDR > SHN
Disc 1 51:07.11
-Set 1-
01. Wang Dang Doodle
02. Jack Straw
03. Loser
04. Me and My Uncle ->
05. Mexicali Blues
06. Bird Song
07. Hell in a Bucket->
08. Keep Your Day Job
Disc 2 50:06.38
-Set 2-
01. China Cat Sunflower ->
02. I Know You Rider
03. I Need a Miracle ->
04. Bertha ->
05. Jam ->
06. China Doll ->
07. Drums ->
Disc 3 38:46.45
-Set 2 Cont.-
01. Space ->
02. Saint Stephen ->
03. Throwing Stones ->
04. Touch of Grey
Encore:
05. Johnny B. Goode
notes
- These discs made avaliable to gdlive are identicle in terms of tracking and editing as those seeded on etree but these do have minimal noise reduction. These are the copies I listen to. I believe there is nothing wrong with NR and many of the folks downloading from gdlive don't have the capablities and or time to perform such procedures. So if you are worried about a good listen get these. If you are worried about collectiblity or want to do your own NR and or GE get the etree version. I made several splices to patch cassette flips using the etree audience version of this show and used many different technics to make these splices as transparent as possible. All editing was done using Cool Edit Pro. Patches are found on the following tracks:
- patch: d2t01 0:00.00 -> 0:12.20
- patch: d2t06 3:53.19 -> 4:29.22
- patch: d3t04 2:42.23 -> 4:33.06
- I would like to thank my friend Bob for getting me the etree discs to make the patches and thank Jay Silberman for taking the time to record these wonderful audience tapes. Any questions or commennts feel free to contact me at drgseeds@hotmail.com
length expanded size cdr WAVE problems fmt ratio filename
7:49.27 82795148 B --- -- ---xx shn 0.6760 gd83-10-11d1t01.shn
5:36.40 59364524 B --- -- ---xx shn 0.6846 gd83-10-11d1t02.shn
7:23.01 78147596 B --- -- ---xx shn 0.6579 gd83-10-11d1t03.shn
3:16.29 34642652 B --- -- ---xx shn 0.6814 gd83-10-11d1t04.shn
4:55.30 52108604 B --- -- ---xx shn 0.6685 gd83-10-11d1t05.shn
11:42.10 123856364 B --- -- ---xx shn 0.6507 gd83-10-11d1t06.shn
5:44.12 60709868 B --- -- ---xx shn 0.7163 gd83-10-11d1t07.shn
4:40.06 49406156 B --- -- ---xx shn 0.7304 gd83-10-11d1t08.shn
6:12.21 65670236 B --- -- ---xx shn 0.7735 gd83-10-11d2t01.shn
8:28.00 89611244 B --- -- ---xx shn 0.7541 gd83-10-11d2t02.shn
4:52.57 51642908 B --- -- ---xx shn 0.7612 gd83-10-11d2t03.shn
6:10.08 65286860 B --- -- ---xx shn 0.7681 gd83-10-11d2t04.shn
3:18.22 34978988 B --- -- ---xx shn 0.7227 gd83-10-11d2t05.shn
8:35.38 90935420 B --- -- ---xx shn 0.7419 gd83-10-11d2t06.shn
12:39.38 133977020 B --- -- ---xx shn 0.7064 gd83-10-11d2t07.shn
11:15.40 119164544 B -b- -- ---xx shn 0.5956 gd83-10-11d3t01.shn
7:02.56 74571632 B -b- -- ---xx shn 0.7349 gd83-10-11d3t02.shn
9:22.47 99246464 B -b- -- ---xx shn 0.7223 gd83-10-11d3t03.shn
6:44.35 71348048 B -b- -- ---xx shn 0.7479 gd83-10-11d3t04.shn
4:21.21 46090088 B -b- -- ---xx shn 0.7296 gd83-10-11d3t05.shn
140:10.13 1483554364 B 0.7053 (20 files)
No errors occured.
Madison Square Garden
New York, NY.
October 11, 1983
Lineage: SBD > Cassette Master > Dat x 2 > CDR > SHN
Disc 1 51:07.11
-Set 1-
01. Wang Dang Doodle
02. Jack Straw
03. Loser
04. Me and My Uncle ->
05. Mexicali Blues
06. Bird Song
07. Hell in a Bucket->
08. Keep Your Day Job
Disc 2 50:06.38
-Set 2-
01. China Cat Sunflower ->
02. I Know You Rider
03. I Need a Miracle ->
04. Bertha ->
05. Jam ->
06. China Doll ->
07. Drums ->
Disc 3 38:46.45
-Set 2 Cont.-
01. Space ->
02. Saint Stephen ->
03. Throwing Stones ->
04. Touch of Grey
Encore:
05. Johnny B. Goode
notes
- These discs made avaliable to gdlive are identicle in terms of tracking and editing as those seeded on etree but these do have minimal noise reduction. These are the copies I listen to. I believe there is nothing wrong with NR and many of the folks downloading from gdlive don't have the capablities and or time to perform such procedures. So if you are worried about a good listen get these. If you are worried about collectiblity or want to do your own NR and or GE get the etree version. I made several splices to patch cassette flips using the etree audience version of this show and used many different technics to make these splices as transparent as possible. All editing was done using Cool Edit Pro. Patches are found on the following tracks:
- patch: d2t01 0:00.00 -> 0:12.20
- patch: d2t06 3:53.19 -> 4:29.22
- patch: d3t04 2:42.23 -> 4:33.06
- I would like to thank my friend Bob for getting me the etree discs to make the patches and thank Jay Silberman for taking the time to record these wonderful audience tapes. Any questions or commennts feel free to contact me at drgseeds@hotmail.com
length expanded size cdr WAVE problems fmt ratio filename
7:49.27 82795148 B --- -- ---xx shn 0.6760 gd83-10-11d1t01.shn
5:36.40 59364524 B --- -- ---xx shn 0.6846 gd83-10-11d1t02.shn
7:23.01 78147596 B --- -- ---xx shn 0.6579 gd83-10-11d1t03.shn
3:16.29 34642652 B --- -- ---xx shn 0.6814 gd83-10-11d1t04.shn
4:55.30 52108604 B --- -- ---xx shn 0.6685 gd83-10-11d1t05.shn
11:42.10 123856364 B --- -- ---xx shn 0.6507 gd83-10-11d1t06.shn
5:44.12 60709868 B --- -- ---xx shn 0.7163 gd83-10-11d1t07.shn
4:40.06 49406156 B --- -- ---xx shn 0.7304 gd83-10-11d1t08.shn
6:12.21 65670236 B --- -- ---xx shn 0.7735 gd83-10-11d2t01.shn
8:28.00 89611244 B --- -- ---xx shn 0.7541 gd83-10-11d2t02.shn
4:52.57 51642908 B --- -- ---xx shn 0.7612 gd83-10-11d2t03.shn
6:10.08 65286860 B --- -- ---xx shn 0.7681 gd83-10-11d2t04.shn
3:18.22 34978988 B --- -- ---xx shn 0.7227 gd83-10-11d2t05.shn
8:35.38 90935420 B --- -- ---xx shn 0.7419 gd83-10-11d2t06.shn
12:39.38 133977020 B --- -- ---xx shn 0.7064 gd83-10-11d2t07.shn
11:15.40 119164544 B -b- -- ---xx shn 0.5956 gd83-10-11d3t01.shn
7:02.56 74571632 B -b- -- ---xx shn 0.7349 gd83-10-11d3t02.shn
9:22.47 99246464 B -b- -- ---xx shn 0.7223 gd83-10-11d3t03.shn
6:44.35 71348048 B -b- -- ---xx shn 0.7479 gd83-10-11d3t04.shn
4:21.21 46090088 B -b- -- ---xx shn 0.7296 gd83-10-11d3t05.shn
140:10.13 1483554364 B 0.7053 (20 files)
No errors occured.
Comments
Other Sources (comments)
FOB Sennheiser 441's >... (0)
Sbd > Cassette Master > Dat... (0)
Peter Braverman 'fix' of... (2)
noise-reduced and Bertha... (3)
Recording Info:
Beyer M160... (0)
flac16 ; Recording Info:... (0)
flac16 ; Lineage: master... (2)
flac16 ; Lineage: master... (0)
flac16 ; Beyerdynamic... (0)
flac16 ; source: (3)audio... (0)
flac16 ; 2 source matrix:... (0)
flac24 ; Updated Lineage:... (0)
flac16 ; 2 Source Matrix... (0)
flac16 ; Master Audience... (0)
flac24 ; Master Audience... (0)
flac24 ; Updated Recording... (2)
flac16 ; Updated Recording... (2)
flac16/48kHz ; Jim Wise's... (0)
flac24 ; Jim Wise's Master... (0)
flac16/44.1 Master set... (0)
flac24/48 Master set 1:... (0)
flac16 ; Mark Cohen's... (0)
flac24 ; Mark Cohen's... (0)
flac16/48kHz ; Source... (0)
flac24 ; 2nd Set Source... (0)
2 Beyer M160> Sony TCD5M... (0)
falc1648 Source Info:... (0)
flac2496 Source Info:... (0)
flac1648 Rob Eaton's... (0)
flac2496 Rob Eaton's... (0)
flac16; Matrix by Hunter... (0)
FOB Sennheiser 441's >... (0)
Sbd > Cassette Master > Dat... (0)
Peter Braverman 'fix' of... (2)
noise-reduced and Bertha... (3)
Recording Info:
Beyer M160... (0)
flac16 ; Recording Info:... (0)
flac16 ; Lineage: master... (2)
flac16 ; Lineage: master... (0)
flac16 ; Beyerdynamic... (0)
flac16 ; source: (3)audio... (0)
flac16 ; 2 source matrix:... (0)
flac24 ; Updated Lineage:... (0)
flac16 ; 2 Source Matrix... (0)
flac16 ; Master Audience... (0)
flac24 ; Master Audience... (0)
flac24 ; Updated Recording... (2)
flac16 ; Updated Recording... (2)
flac16/48kHz ; Jim Wise's... (0)
flac24 ; Jim Wise's Master... (0)
flac16/44.1 Master set... (0)
flac24/48 Master set 1:... (0)
flac16 ; Mark Cohen's... (0)
flac24 ; Mark Cohen's... (0)
flac16/48kHz ; Source... (0)
flac24 ; 2nd Set Source... (0)
2 Beyer M160> Sony TCD5M... (0)
falc1648 Source Info:... (0)
flac2496 Source Info:... (0)
flac1648 Rob Eaton's... (0)
flac2496 Rob Eaton's... (0)
flac16; Matrix by Hunter... (0)
Date: 01/15/2003
User:
Willy
Is there any more info available as to who did the processing? Tx, Willy
Date: 01/16/2003
User:
Ben Neuman
If you read the comments on the similar pair of 10.15.83, you'll see that Bob Harrell seeded both the non-NR copy to Etree and his own, personally NRed copy to GDLive. The situation appears to be the same here.
Date: 05/07/2004
User:
jay ashley
Unfortunately, this source was found to have some type of compression scheme applied. I am not sure which of the lossy formats was used, but the compression can be clearly seen in frequency analysis. I have not tested the source used to produce this version, but will do so once I can get ahold of a copy.
jay
jay
Date: 05/08/2004
User:
jay ashley
I have tested both noise reduction and compression extensively. Noise reduction can be seen at the high end as scalloping or slight dropoff. Compression such as mp3 is very different. I will be happy to show anyone interested how to detect it.
I can be contacted at: jashley@deadacated.com
This is a compressed source and I stand by my analysis.
jay
I can be contacted at: jashley@deadacated.com
This is a compressed source and I stand by my analysis.
jay
Jay, can you please explain how you've come to the conclusion that this seed is from a lossy compressed source?
Date: 05/10/2004
User:
Alex
Frequency analysis. A diagram of the frequency shows if the audio file is compressed or lossless. It can easily be seen as the upper regions of the frequency is totally black on MP3-files, meaning loss in quality, while lossless audio files have the peaks going all the way up. It?s not too easy to explain, I think Jay can do it better, and it?s much easier with actual screenshots. It can be done using the Tools in EAC and i?m using it regularly to check on sources from SharingTheGroove, for instance. The difference between compressed and un-compressed are very easy to detect.
Date: 05/20/2004
User:
jay ashley
I finally got to look at the source this source was said to be made from. Though the frequency analysis has many points that are similar to Mini Disc compression, I just don't think there are enough to conclude the original source has MD in the lineage.
Therefore, I am reversing my original conclusion. I believe the original source, and thus, this source, DO NOT have compression in the lineage.
I believe the anomolies are due to the upper limit of the cassette deck used for transferring. Coincidentally, that limit is around 18khz, which is the same frequency where the MD signature appears.
Keep in mind, this is not an exact science, however, through testing and comparing known souces it becomes easier to detect sources that are not what they are purported to be. And, there are a whole lot of those circulating.
jay
Therefore, I am reversing my original conclusion. I believe the original source, and thus, this source, DO NOT have compression in the lineage.
I believe the anomolies are due to the upper limit of the cassette deck used for transferring. Coincidentally, that limit is around 18khz, which is the same frequency where the MD signature appears.
Keep in mind, this is not an exact science, however, through testing and comparing known souces it becomes easier to detect sources that are not what they are purported to be. And, there are a whole lot of those circulating.
jay
Date: 05/20/2004
User:
jay ashley
In response to Alex. Yes, the high frequency range is where compression is detected. There are many types of compression, however. Mini Disc is not so straight forward to detect as mp3. And, some mp4 files are nearly impossible to detect. I first look at the signature as the track is playing. This gives a good overall picture, ie, cassette, pcm, compression. Then, if there are anomolies, I will look at individual points on the frequency analyzer, moving through the entire wav file to see if the anomoly is consistant. Between frequency analysis and spectral analysis, everything from FM to Noise Reduction to Compression can be detected.
jay
jay
Date: 12/21/2004
User:
Diana
Discursive chitchat/flamebait now pruned.
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